Blown Up, Broken Down, Built Back: A Veteran’s Road to Recovery

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Viewer discretion is advised. The following content includes graphic imagery and mature themes.

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This isn't for the week. And yes, feelings will get hurt.

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So brace yourself and welcome to the Hammer Drops.

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Hey, welcome to another episode of The Hammer Drops. I'm your host,

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Dave. Today, I got a special guest for you. His name is Jess.

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You may have seen him over on Instagram. It is, oh, shit. I'm drawing a blank,

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Jess. I'm bringing you in right away.

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I just drew a blank. I don't know why. It's been one of those fucking weeks.

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No, you're good. You're good. It's Recon to Recovery. That's what I thought

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it was. Yeah, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok.

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Alright, so as you just saw, we kind of fly off the handle here sometimes.

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It kind of came off the tracks with the internet going down originally.

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And I want to apologize because I've been having a lot of stuff in my personal

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life that's been going on.

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My mom just got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, so I've been dealing with that

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back and forth to the hospital. So, I do apologize.

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I knew the name. It was in my head, but I didn't want to fuck it up.

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You're 100% good, brother. All right, Jess, why don't we just start off the show?

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Let the listeners know where they can find you, what you're about and all that

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stuff. Let's just start there.

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Okay. Well, like you said, Recon2Recovery, that's the number two,

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Recon2Recovery on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.

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My TikTok account is pretty new as well as my Facebook. I just wanted to grow

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here on Instagram before I started to push out to see if I could grow.

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And it just kind of blew up a little bit on me.

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What I do is actually, as I'm in recovery from drugs and alcohol,

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I spent, and I was in, you know, I'll get into more of that later,

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but I was in the army and in Iraq and combat wounded and all that.

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And I just went down a really, really dark road after I got out and ended up

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getting incarcerated for many years and in drugs and alcohol and just the worst you can imagine.

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And finally, when I got my, when I got my shit together in 2023, three,

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I started working and advocating for mental health and PTSD and homelessness

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and addiction and recovery services and all that stuff.

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And actually working recovery now as a recovery coach. I'm in college full time.

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I just finished up my junior year at Fort Hay State University online and is

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studying social work, becoming an addiction counselor.

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And it's like, life has just changed so much for me that I went from being on

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that side of hurting everybody to being on the side of trying to help everybody.

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And I just want to get the word out there to everybody that no matter what you've

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been through, homelessness, addiction, all that stuff, I've been there and that you can come back.

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Well, and you know what? There's not a lot of people out there that are doing stuff like this.

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And I, me personally, from the bottom of my heart, I commend for everything that you're doing.

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I've, you know, we're friends on Instagram. I share a lot of your stuff because,

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I mean, it hits home with me.

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You know, I suffer from PTSD from certain things that have happened in my life.

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So the work that you're doing, you know, it's wonderful and it's,

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you know, we need more of it. I mean, let's just be honest.

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And that's and that's i'm glad you brought that up about the ptsd because

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when everybody hears ptsd they think combat right

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and they think combat trauma and and really a lot

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of cases aren't majority of cases aren't combat

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in in america you know and i'm sure it's anywhere else but that but i'm not

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sure about the stats anywhere else ptsd means you know childhood trauma which

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i had it means you've been in a car accident you witnessed something horrible

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or you've been through something horrible that's affected you to where it still

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affects you for, for this day,

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you know, and it's, it's, it's takes active.

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Therapy and active recovery to get hold of that right

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right yeah and see for me i got i

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was diagnosed with ptsd back in 2016 and the

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reason why you know and it was the trauma that i

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witnessed i had i witnessed my father die you

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know i sat next to him he took his last breath and then

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i would i sat in there when they

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came you know the hearse came and you know the coroners came

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to take them out i sat in the room and i watched my

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father be put in the body bag and taken out and that i'm

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telling you that fucked me up like i

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have not been the same since i've had i have nightmares regularly you

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know of those times you know and i could just be you know out and i think i

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don't know if this is i mean maybe you might be able to help me out with this

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but i know for me i have like two sides of it i don't know if that sounds familiar

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to you but where i can have the like I have panic anxiety,

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but then I have the other side where it's just like, just anger,

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just pure anger just comes out and it just, it scares the hell out of me when

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it happens. And I'm not a big advocate for, you know, big pharma and stuff like

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that and taking medications.

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But in those instances, when I have to take that medication,

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I have to take it. I don't have a fucking choice.

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Is that something, I mean, is that kind of go hand in hand with PTSD from what you're learning?

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A thousand percent, you know, and that was the biggest thing is, you know,

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is we get in without getting too into what anger

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is you know anger is a secondary emotion right it's always something

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underneath that that that's causing you to be angry sadness you

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know whatever you're feeling it comes out as anger

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right because that's the expression as it comes out so and that's the that's

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the great that's the great thing about talking to people in an active you know

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support groups you know one-on-one counseling i mean i had to do all that and

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it's and and let me back up a little bit from there because it's like when i

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was in the army i was a staff sergeant i was a scout,

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you know, it was a Calvary scout, which is reconnaissance, which is,

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you know, we spent all of our time in Iraq kicking in doors and stuff like that.

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So asking for help and sitting down in front of a therapist was the last thing

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on my list of things I was willing to do, right?

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When I got home, because that was a sign of weakness.

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And that's how I saw it was a sign of weakness.

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Well, and I think in society that just, it kind of gets embedded in our brains

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that that is, you know, being men that we can't do that.

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We can't show those, that those signs like That to us is like,

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no, that makes us weak. We can't show that.

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Right. Well, and I say that like I just decided to go ahead and just jump into

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therapy because I was just so willing.

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But listen, it took prison time and it took years of addiction and homelessness

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and all that shit to beat it into me. And it's basically what it did.

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It broke me down to where I was like, okay, after living, I was 40 years old

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when I finally got clean from drugs and alcohol and started active recovery.

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It's like, it takes a beat down sometimes. Some people, they learn a little bit easier than others.

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I'm unfortunately a hard learner, man. I'm just not going to put it.

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No, and I'm the same way. I'm a hard learner. You know, my path to where I'm

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at today, I started off when I was 17 years old with, I've had,

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you know, I've been through drug addiction.

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I've been through the system with jail and all that stuff.

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And to be able to come out where I'm at today, where everybody and their mother

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would would say, you know, because of my past that you're not going to amount to anything.

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And to be able to prove people wrong that, yeah, you can come back from this.

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You just have to put in the fucking work to do it.

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I mean, you're I mean, you I mean, you're you're a shining example of that as

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well. You just put in the work and you fucking come out of it.

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Yeah. And that's the thing about it is, is people don't understand it.

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It is a lot of work. That's basically what it is.

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And I tried to get clean so many times throughout the years.

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I just, whether it was I wasn't ready or whatever it was, it doesn't matter

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why I didn't get, you know, didn't get clean and why it took me so,

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why I had to go down so far.

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I don't, I'll never understand that. I don't have to understand that.

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Right. That's the thing about it is I just have to understand what I can do now. and the

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thing about it is like yeah is people there's always going

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to be people out there to this day that are probably and and i just

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don't let it bother me that will probably never approve and

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say that i've changed they'll probably always say just always be this

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or that and and and i and i would like

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i'd be lying if i said that it didn't bother me early on because it did

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i wanted to prove when i got clean and i got healthy i wanted to prove to

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the world that i wasn't this bad guy that everybody thought i

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was at the war and that you know and i was just some

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criminal or or drug drug addict or drug dealer

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or whatever it was abusive dude i was just

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because i was all these anger you know the anger there you know

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i was if you came across me you know there was there

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was a good chance we were going to get a fight for no reason and guarantee was

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going to be my it was my my fault right oh yeah no and i've been there you know

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i was i would i remember one time i was at a gas station i was putting gas in

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my car and somebody just looked at me just the wrong way and i was i was up

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in his face like starting to fight like you know fuck you you know who the fuck

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do you think you are staring at me like that?

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But that's part of the mentality. And I think, you know, there...

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People don't bring to light a lot of things with PTSD and like certain triggers

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and just certain things and how people are.

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I mean, and it's people just kind of brushing underneath the fucking carpet, like whatever.

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But I mean, it's reality. I mean, this happens daily. I mean,

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it's happened to me. It's happened to you. I know other people that suffer from it.

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It has happened to them as well. I know for my brothers who have served,

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both of them over in Iraq during the wars, one in the Air Force, one in the Army.

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I mean, just what you guys have

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seen over there and been through is just enough to just break anybody.

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I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, it just breaks. I mean,

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I see what my brothers have gone through.

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My one brother, he had to move. You know, we live in Northern Illinois.

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He literally moved from here up to the upper UP of Michigan just to get away from everybody. Right.

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You know and that's what he needed because when he was

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here he was staying with the buddy and i'll

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tell you the story he was you know

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obviously the guys that you know when they come back from the war they have

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a hard time sleeping and stuff like that and you know that was typical for my

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brother he was he was up and he heard somebody outside now mind you where he

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was staying at the guy's ex-girlfriend came over who was married but was going

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through a divorce well my brother hear some rustling outside,

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what's the first thing he's going to do? He's grabbing, he grabs his gun, he goes outside.

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And he sees somebody looking in the windows. He puts the gun to the guy's head.

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Like, who the fuck are you? What are you doing here? And the guy's like,

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relax, relax. I'm a cop. I'm a cop. My brother's like, I don't give a fuck what

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you are. You're on private property.

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You know, but I mean, just what happened to him when he was over in the war,

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it just like, just fucking triggered something. I mean.

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Well, you know, and that's the thing about it is, you know, when you join,

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like I joined the army, I can back up and I won't get into like an elaborate

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showing because it could take all day.

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But, you know, I joined the army after 9-11, you know, and I joined the army

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combat veteran, you know, that I joined in and like, well, you can be,

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you know, I did good on the, on the test or like, you can, you can be like a

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medic or something. I was like, nah, I want to be a combat dude.

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They're like, well, you're kind of a little guy, you know, you got to carry a big rucksack.

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And I was like, no, this is what I want to do. They're like,

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all right, man, that's what you want to do. That's what you want to do.

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You know, cause I wanted to join and I wanted to, I wanted to go over there

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and get, you know, vengeance, whatever, revenge, whatever you want to call it

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on, you know, Al Qaeda, you know, the 9-11 bombing and all that,

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whatever. We can get into that.

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It's a whole other rabbit hole. But I thought she and I had at the time. Right.

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Right. And so I wanted to be this guy, you know, and I didn't have,

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I graduated high school and everything like that.

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But, you know, and I was drinking a lot, you know, I grew up on a farm.

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So, and I'll back up all the way to that. I grew up on a small farm outside

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of small town, like a 1200 person town in Kansas, Southeast Kansas. Right.

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And you're either armed in there or you, or you have money already, or you're in drugs.

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That's, that's, that's what you are right back there, you know,

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and it's still that way to this day, you know, and that's why I don't live there

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anymore. That's why I moved up to where I live now, right?

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Like three hours away for a reason, you know, and, and, and my family is successful farmers.

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They have a lot of success in their farming, you know, and that's something

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that I had the option to do, but it's just, it wasn't for me. Right.

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And well, there wasn't much that was for me anyway. So I joined the army and

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then I went to Korea, South Korea for a year.

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And then the drinking culture in the army is just out of control,

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which is awesome. I'm not blaming the army for my alcoholism,

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but it definitely didn't help.

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And so I became a super hardcore alcoholic and then we deployed to Iraq.

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I was a Sergeant when I deployed, I was a gunner on a 50 cal truck halfway through the tour.

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I mean, we got hit all the time, firefights, you know, it was,

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it was 2005. So it was still pretty early, you know, on the war.

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I think it was OAF four and five was what they, what they called that.

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And in 2006, after I'd already gone on mid tour, came back and our,

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our truck was hit by a massive IED and it just, it destroyed.

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I said, I have pictures of it.

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And actually I have them here. I'll pull them up right now while we got this going.

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Yeah. So this is the truck you're talking about, right? Right here.

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This is what happened when you're out.

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So this, this, this is the picture of the Humvee. I was already,

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I was still in the hospital because there's a hospital right here. That was LSA Anaconda.

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So veterans who have been in Iraq and stuff like that, you guys know what I'm talking about.

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It's right outside Balad, but it's called LSA Anaconda. It's an Air Force base,

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but it's also, you know, Army was, we were there too. It's a big base.

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And that's where we were stationed at for my first, I don't know,

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five months. It's been 20 years since I was there, so my numbers aren't always the greatest.

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Plus, I was in TBI and all that shit. I got blown up, and then I was a gunner

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on that truck right there. It got hit right here on the back side.

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You guys, on his back rear side, you can see where the IED hit it.

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The truck was full, all the way full except for the back left side.

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I had my actual gunner was sitting in that seat right there,

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and he got burnt horribly bad.

00:14:12.254 --> 00:14:16.074
That he did, he did survive my boss, the TC, the truck commander,

00:14:16.114 --> 00:14:19.074
who's in the front right seat, it got burnt really bad, pulling him out,

00:14:19.094 --> 00:14:22.754
you know, and everybody, it was just a horrible fucking situation, right? Just the worst.

00:14:22.874 --> 00:14:25.654
I got ejected out of that. It hit so hard, the three, one, five,

00:14:25.774 --> 00:14:27.134
five artillery rounds, it hit us.

00:14:27.554 --> 00:14:30.994
The IED said it was a pressure plate IED, meaning that we just had to drive

00:14:30.994 --> 00:14:32.594
over the right spot for it to blow up. Right.

00:14:33.204 --> 00:14:36.824
And so it ejected me out of the Humvee. I broke my collarbone, some ribs.

00:14:37.124 --> 00:14:41.224
And then I was knocked out initially. I woke up. The truck was burning down.

00:14:41.544 --> 00:14:45.824
We had another unit come over and help get us out of the section,

00:14:45.944 --> 00:14:47.884
help get everybody out of the vehicle. And they found me.

00:14:48.004 --> 00:14:50.604
They thought I was still in the truck burning because they didn't know where

00:14:50.604 --> 00:14:53.384
the hell I was. It ejected 20 feet down the road.

00:14:54.304 --> 00:14:59.604
So you know what I mean? Chaos. Now you got to worry about we have 50 rounds

00:14:59.604 --> 00:15:02.344
by the hundreds in the back of the Humvee.

00:15:02.784 --> 00:15:07.264
240 bravo rounds, 7.62 rounds, 5.56 rounds, all these rounds are burning,

00:15:07.404 --> 00:15:08.424
are getting ready to start cooking off.

00:15:08.524 --> 00:15:11.124
So we know this, right? Cause the truck's burning down, it hit the fuel tank.

00:15:11.964 --> 00:15:15.104
So we have a matter of time to get out of there before we're in a firefight with ourselves.

00:15:16.793 --> 00:15:21.853
Yeah. Yeah. And so we get everybody out and then I remember getting loaded on the Black Hawk.

00:15:22.073 --> 00:15:24.033
And then I remember getting hit with a whole bunch of morphine.

00:15:24.113 --> 00:15:28.173
And I don't know if it was that that knocked me out or the blast or the combination of both.

00:15:28.693 --> 00:15:33.713
But I was knocked out and I was out and I woke up in the hospital on Balad there.

00:15:33.853 --> 00:15:35.873
They met him back to sit on a Black Hawk there.

00:15:36.353 --> 00:15:40.313
And my, my, my, my, my soldier has already been, he'd already been gone to Germany

00:15:40.313 --> 00:15:42.713
because of burns and you can't stay in Iraq with those kinds of burns.

00:15:42.713 --> 00:15:45.653
But anyways i don't know his story but you know without him telling

00:15:45.653 --> 00:15:48.333
it but he's an awesome dude he's still alive today i love them to

00:15:48.333 --> 00:15:51.213
death and everybody i mean the band of

00:15:51.213 --> 00:15:54.073
brothers i had there is somebody that you know i'll i'll never

00:15:54.073 --> 00:15:58.473
ever forget and always will love you know and but i finished my tour out in

00:15:58.473 --> 00:16:01.973
iraq you know and i came home from iraq and i was just i mean i was a mess i

00:16:01.973 --> 00:16:06.313
i was drinking uh when i got home and then i was on all these painkillers because

00:16:06.313 --> 00:16:09.753
because of the broken bones i had a couple surgeries when i got home to every

00:16:09.753 --> 00:16:13.533
you know because i stayed so i I never got the bones that I got broken, healed,

00:16:14.093 --> 00:16:15.433
ever had my collarbone done.

00:16:15.933 --> 00:16:19.813
And then anyway, so I was going through the, let me back up.

00:16:19.913 --> 00:16:23.433
When I was in Iraq, I reenlisted for indefinite, meaning that I wanted to stay

00:16:23.433 --> 00:16:24.353
as long as I could, right?

00:16:25.653 --> 00:16:29.033
Took a cash bonus. And then I got home and then they're like,

00:16:29.093 --> 00:16:33.493
well, we need to do some, and I need to do some more PTSD or traumatic brain

00:16:33.493 --> 00:16:36.013
injury screening because you're blast, right? And I was like, okay, whatever.

00:16:36.193 --> 00:16:39.733
And we were getting ready to redeploy back to Iraq and within like months.

00:16:40.253 --> 00:16:44.533
And I was promoted to staff sergeant, which was making rank pretty fast. I was loving life.

00:16:44.793 --> 00:16:48.593
And then they said, Hey man, your brain injury is too bad. You got to take a medical retirement.

00:16:49.753 --> 00:16:53.113
It's like a knife to the heart, right? You know, my dream, my life,

00:16:53.213 --> 00:16:55.693
the only thing I've ever been good at in life was being a scout, right?

00:16:55.773 --> 00:16:58.353
That was, it's the way I felt, you know, I wasn't, I was married.

00:16:58.653 --> 00:17:02.933
I had two kids that are very, very young baby kids.

00:17:03.453 --> 00:17:06.613
And I had a wife that left me because she was just like, I'm not going to deal

00:17:06.613 --> 00:17:07.593
with this craziness, right?

00:17:08.913 --> 00:17:11.393
So long story short, I ended up taking a medical retirement.

00:17:11.393 --> 00:17:13.273
I got out. I was married to my second

00:17:13.273 --> 00:17:16.533
wife. I just, I jumped into a quick relationship after my first wife.

00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:20.940
It was a really abusive relationship on my part. And then I caught her in an

00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:22.340
affair with one of my soldiers.

00:17:22.660 --> 00:17:25.460
And then long story short, I ended up going to prison for assault,

00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:28.880
kidnapping charges, all this shit. And a lot of it ended up getting dropped.

00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.320
And I ended up pleading out to an assault charge.

00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.020
And then I went to prison, man. And when I got to prison, it became heroin.

00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:40.260
And then I got out for the first time. I headbutted my parole officer for fucking talking shit to me.

00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:44.260
And then they gave me another assault charge on a police officer this time. So I went back to prison.

00:17:44.760 --> 00:17:47.620
And then i yeah you know so i just went down this

00:17:47.620 --> 00:17:51.840
spiral of you know and and and a lot of people say oh the army didn't treat

00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:54.520
you right the army didn't do this for you it's like yeah the army could have

00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:59.340
done better the va could have done better but really we're we are responsible

00:17:59.340 --> 00:18:03.880
for our own recovery man and that's something that i didn't get for so many

00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.940
years is that i was always and and,

00:18:07.593 --> 00:18:10.393
I always played that victim role so well, right?

00:18:10.593 --> 00:18:13.533
That it was a reason for me to continue to use and drink.

00:18:13.713 --> 00:18:16.893
It was a reason for me to be like, don't, don't let him go. Let him go.

00:18:16.993 --> 00:18:20.233
Let him drink because he's got a purple heart and he was hurt in Iraq. Right.

00:18:20.473 --> 00:18:24.873
So it's like, but how long are you going to sit in your self pity before you

00:18:24.873 --> 00:18:28.073
realize that you're fucking 40 years old? Like I was and had nothing.

00:18:29.273 --> 00:18:33.493
Right. Well, and unfortunately a lot of people, you know, they don't understand

00:18:33.493 --> 00:18:36.773
that, you know, you know, they just figure, okay, you know.

00:18:36.773 --> 00:18:39.853
They just they kind of just like help

00:18:39.853 --> 00:18:42.753
out the situation keep you going on that path because

00:18:42.753 --> 00:18:45.673
they don't want to say anything to you you know

00:18:45.673 --> 00:18:49.733
and that's that's unfortunate when people really need to speak up in those in

00:18:49.733 --> 00:18:53.773
those situations like hey you know yo man you're going down this fucking path

00:18:53.773 --> 00:18:57.073
you know you need to fucking pull it back before you get too far down you know

00:18:57.073 --> 00:19:00.173
and for you i mean you not only being in the war getting blown up like that

00:19:00.173 --> 00:19:03.313
but then you go to prison now I mean, it's, you know,

00:19:03.853 --> 00:19:06.173
being, you know, being, being in jail and stuff like that, too.

00:19:06.793 --> 00:19:10.413
That is like that twists your mind as well.

00:19:11.093 --> 00:19:14.273
When you come out, you're not the same fucking person you were when you went in.

00:19:14.593 --> 00:19:18.993
I know when I first came out the first time, like I, it was,

00:19:19.073 --> 00:19:22.513
I had a different attitude, you know, and I remember to this day,

00:19:22.593 --> 00:19:26.553
my dad picked me up and he's like, Hey, I got you some, some McDonald's and

00:19:26.553 --> 00:19:28.893
stuff like that. You know, something to eat, you know, because.

00:19:29.622 --> 00:19:32.902
Let's be honest jail food sucks although i will

00:19:32.902 --> 00:19:35.602
say this when i was locked up the biscuits and gravy that's how

00:19:35.602 --> 00:19:38.362
i got turned down to biscuits and gravy that was like

00:19:38.362 --> 00:19:41.162
the best meal ever in jail and you know

00:19:41.162 --> 00:19:43.822
i would give up commissary just to get the biscuits and gravy

00:19:43.822 --> 00:19:46.862
if i can get extra because there was people in them that didn't like it it's

00:19:46.862 --> 00:19:49.702
like hey now give me a couple candy bars for your breakfast today you know

00:19:49.702 --> 00:19:53.002
and they would take it but you know

00:19:53.002 --> 00:19:56.282
and i but when i when we were driving some somebody

00:19:56.282 --> 00:19:59.182
in front of us just like brake checked us and i just just i

00:19:59.182 --> 00:20:02.362
lost it i started going off you know it's like motherfucker this

00:20:02.362 --> 00:20:05.362
that and the other i'll get out there i'll fuck them up you know my dad

00:20:05.362 --> 00:20:09.102
just kind of looks at me he's like what the fuck happened to you in there you

00:20:09.102 --> 00:20:12.062
know and then you then you got to start reliving everything because you

00:20:12.062 --> 00:20:14.822
know when you get locked up i'm paying

00:20:14.822 --> 00:20:17.622
picture you know you're the new person on

00:20:17.622 --> 00:20:20.422
the block and you know if you don't want to be fucked with you gotta

00:20:20.422 --> 00:20:24.062
you gotta show them that not to fuck with you and you

00:20:24.062 --> 00:20:27.862
know and you make some alliances sometimes with some people and when they tell

00:20:27.862 --> 00:20:32.002
you to do something you fucking do it you know and at least in my instance you

00:20:32.002 --> 00:20:35.342
know i had somebody you know this guy whose name is marco you know it's like

00:20:35.342 --> 00:20:39.062
hey man if you want fucking protection you know you need to do this you know

00:20:39.062 --> 00:20:41.502
while we're playing basketball this guy right over here you need to fuck him up,

00:20:42.297 --> 00:20:48.257
So what did I do? 18 years old, had no choice. I fucked them up. I got thrown in the hole.

00:20:50.097 --> 00:20:54.717
Oh yeah. When I first got to prison, you got to realize I was coming out of

00:20:54.717 --> 00:20:58.537
the army and I was like, in the army, I'm sure there's racism exists.

00:20:58.717 --> 00:21:00.737
I never experienced any racism when I was in.

00:21:01.077 --> 00:21:04.597
People can say what they want about the military, but it was the only place

00:21:04.597 --> 00:21:07.377
that I've ever been where people were actually colorblind. You know what I'm saying?

00:21:07.617 --> 00:21:10.897
And that was like, it was not tolerated. It was not anything. thing.

00:21:10.977 --> 00:21:14.077
I remember, I remember I had a boss one time and, you know, cause I'm from Kansas,

00:21:14.137 --> 00:21:18.997
you know, and I was like, and I had a, a Confederate flag plaque from when I

00:21:18.997 --> 00:21:20.697
was, you know, when it younger and stuff like that, you know,

00:21:20.737 --> 00:21:23.517
and I didn't, and my boss was like, and he was like my best friend.

00:21:23.617 --> 00:21:25.417
And he was like, listen, bro, you're not having that shit. He's like,

00:21:25.497 --> 00:21:26.877
he's like, that's unacceptable.

00:21:27.397 --> 00:21:29.937
This is the military. Leave that shit at home. Right. And he was like,

00:21:30.217 --> 00:21:32.617
and I learned then I was like, he's like, well, what are you going to do if,

00:21:32.737 --> 00:21:36.557
if you have a black soldier and he comes in and sees that. And all of a sudden he can't trust you.

00:21:38.497 --> 00:21:41.497
And you're supposed about it and it changed my whole perspective on everything

00:21:41.497 --> 00:21:44.137
from there on out you know and god bless that guy you know

00:21:44.137 --> 00:21:46.997
he's an awesome person and it's like that's you

00:21:46.997 --> 00:21:49.917
that was the place where it was it felt like the world

00:21:49.917 --> 00:21:52.737
was safe or from racism you know because it's like nobody

00:21:52.737 --> 00:21:55.637
played the racism card in there you know it was like you just didn't

00:21:55.637 --> 00:21:59.077
see that because people we all had a common goal and that was survival right

00:21:59.077 --> 00:22:02.417
and the brotherhood that was going on and i'm sure the army's i know it's changed

00:22:02.417 --> 00:22:05.757
a lot and that's another conversation we can have for for all day long but you

00:22:05.757 --> 00:22:09.337
know hopefully it's getting better for the better but and that was yeah so i

00:22:09.337 --> 00:22:12.977
got out of the army and then went straight into prison you know and i was approached

00:22:12.977 --> 00:22:17.197
by the white guys obviously if you can't tell that i'm pretty pasty and and they said you know,

00:22:17.820 --> 00:22:20.700
you know, you're either with us or you're against us. You know what I'm saying?

00:22:20.860 --> 00:22:23.700
And that was, that was all right. You know, and I don't know if you could tell

00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:26.280
this or not on screen, but I'm not a big guy. You know what I mean?

00:22:26.620 --> 00:22:29.060
And I lost more fights than I won probably.

00:22:29.800 --> 00:22:32.500
And it was, it was one of them things where it was like, all right,

00:22:32.580 --> 00:22:35.860
well, you know, and that's how you survived. And that was what you did.

00:22:36.060 --> 00:22:40.520
And just because I was there and, and, and did what I did to survive,

00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.740
doesn't mean that I got out a different person.

00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:47.280
I mean, as far as that, my view on racism because here's my view with everything

00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:48.720
and and this is a quick tangent

00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.000
dude you're you're gonna find a piece of shit in every race you go you look

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.900
in if you're looking for one and you're gonna find it in every single race and

00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:58.320
it's like pick the good ones hang and there's a there's a saying in recovery

00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:00.680
that says stick to the winners and that means stick to the winners of people

00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:06.920
that share the same common goals as you do the same common characteristics and

00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.100
values those things that come out that are important right faith family and

00:23:10.100 --> 00:23:11.380
all that stuff that's important to me.

00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:17.140
So yeah. So being going in a prison and then coming out on top of that with

00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:18.500
like the PCSD from the army,

00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.260
I'm telling you, like I have nightmares to this day, almost in my wife,

00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.060
my poor wife, she experiences them because she's usually up because of me while

00:23:26.060 --> 00:23:27.420
I'm sleeping and going through these nightmares.

00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:30.660
And she, she's like the next morning she'll tell me, I said,

00:23:30.760 --> 00:23:32.120
was it prison or was it Iraq?

00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.460
And she's like, sometimes it was this or that, or sometimes they'll say,

00:23:34.580 --> 00:23:36.320
I don't know. I couldn't tell you were just mad at somebody.

00:23:37.689 --> 00:23:40.589
Yeah and that's it having a having a

00:23:40.589 --> 00:23:43.229
loved one that understands and you know because i'm in

00:23:43.229 --> 00:23:45.969
the same boat with my wife you know if i have a nightmare or something

00:23:45.969 --> 00:23:48.829
like that or something's like triggered me you

00:23:48.829 --> 00:23:52.409
know i know when i'm having like when i get triggered like i've been curled

00:23:52.409 --> 00:23:58.549
up at the ball and the wife knows like if we could be arguing up to that point

00:23:58.549 --> 00:24:02.349
the argument stops she gets on the ground with me and she's like it's gonna

00:24:02.349 --> 00:24:06.269
be okay yeah you know and she helps to get me through it because she knows, you know,

00:24:06.649 --> 00:24:11.209
and having that at home, it is such a great fucking thing.

00:24:11.389 --> 00:24:13.869
I mean, it helps get you through those moments that you need to get through.

00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:19.149
You know, I mean, obviously it's probably happened with you on a few occasions, I would assume.

00:24:19.369 --> 00:24:24.529
I mean, it's happened to me. So, you know, but it's that support system that we all need.

00:24:25.469 --> 00:24:29.249
And that's one of the most important things. And I always try to stress to clients,

00:24:29.469 --> 00:24:33.889
to, to sponsees I have and stuff like that. It's like, who are you surround yourself with?

00:24:34.169 --> 00:24:38.069
Will dictate your success in life. Right. And, and, and it's so important for people.

00:24:38.229 --> 00:24:41.009
And it's like, when I was in addiction, I thought about, you know,

00:24:41.089 --> 00:24:45.169
the five people that I surround myself with most and they were never healthy for me. Right.

00:24:45.309 --> 00:24:49.009
And, and, and the people that I surround myself with today are all healthy for me.

00:24:49.129 --> 00:24:52.529
Right. And that's, and that, and that's the difference is, you know,

00:24:52.649 --> 00:24:55.249
it's another go back to the stick to the winner thing is just like,

00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:58.069
and it's not when I say winner, it's not when I'm saying money,

00:24:58.349 --> 00:25:01.789
financial gain, economics, social status, none of that, but it's like the people

00:25:01.789 --> 00:25:03.709
that share the values that make you a better person.

00:25:03.829 --> 00:25:06.769
And not only that, the people that are going to hold you accountable for when

00:25:06.769 --> 00:25:10.889
you do do something that's not honorable, something that's not acceptable, right?

00:25:11.009 --> 00:25:18.589
Because we all have our flaws and as much as progress as I've made in my recovery,

00:25:18.849 --> 00:25:22.389
there's always room for growth. And as soon as I think that there's not is when

00:25:22.389 --> 00:25:24.449
I'm going to start having issues again in life, right?

00:25:25.095 --> 00:25:29.635
Right. Well, and you know, I think that one of the first things I learned when

00:25:29.635 --> 00:25:33.655
I, when I went to rehab, like you have to disconnect from the people,

00:25:33.795 --> 00:25:38.715
places and things that you were involved with that caused, you know,

00:25:39.155 --> 00:25:42.835
during your addiction, because if you don't disconnect from those things,

00:25:43.015 --> 00:25:44.675
you're just going to go right back to it.

00:25:44.675 --> 00:25:48.255
It's just going to be repetitive it's going to be just a the spinning

00:25:48.255 --> 00:25:51.155
spiral circle that's going to just eventually run out of control until

00:25:51.155 --> 00:25:54.035
you hit that rock bottom again and again and again so you

00:25:54.035 --> 00:25:57.495
got to make that disconnect from those people and for

00:25:57.495 --> 00:26:00.395
me i know that was like one of the hardest things for me to do it's like well

00:26:00.395 --> 00:26:04.835
you know this guy i've been friends with him for so fucking long like you know

00:26:04.835 --> 00:26:09.495
i the first time i was in rehab i'd go back and hang out with him and what ended

00:26:09.495 --> 00:26:14.195
up happening i start using again yeah you know and it's just like and then finally it just clicks.

00:26:14.215 --> 00:26:16.675
It's like, well, I really need to get the fuck away from these people,

00:26:17.015 --> 00:26:19.455
you know, get away from the places that I was going to all the time.

00:26:19.595 --> 00:26:23.515
And, you know, if I want a fucking shot at living and doing better,

00:26:23.535 --> 00:26:27.915
I have to make this course correction because if I don't, I'm just fucked.

00:26:28.395 --> 00:26:33.435
Yeah, and that's exactly it. And that's what people, I always try to remind myself that, you know.

00:26:34.394 --> 00:26:38.194
Getting sober is like, I tell people all the time, it's like getting sober is

00:26:38.194 --> 00:26:41.414
that's what you go to detox for or rehab, you know, the recovery part,

00:26:41.594 --> 00:26:46.554
the actual active recovery, you know, is getting to be a better person and finding

00:26:46.554 --> 00:26:49.974
out the biggest thing for me was the biggest question I had to ask myself,

00:26:50.114 --> 00:26:55.174
which was the hardest question that I had to answer was what about me is so

00:26:55.174 --> 00:27:00.354
fucking miserable is so unhappy that I feel like I have to put a substance in

00:27:00.354 --> 00:27:03.174
my body every day just to get up and meet the day.

00:27:03.174 --> 00:27:07.734
Right and to get up to face family to face a job if i did have a job at that

00:27:07.734 --> 00:27:12.094
time or to even go out commit crime right to go out and and and no i was forgery

00:27:12.094 --> 00:27:14.454
is a lot of my things i did and it's like,

00:27:14.974 --> 00:27:18.994
what about me felt like i just couldn't be whole without you know without having

00:27:18.994 --> 00:27:23.074
a substance and when you ask yourself that question man it it it generally i

00:27:23.074 --> 00:27:27.734
mean in my in my case it goes back to childhood right and it goes back to you

00:27:27.734 --> 00:27:30.634
know what were these beliefs i had about myself.

00:27:31.354 --> 00:27:35.074
That were invalid that I thought were, like that I wasn't good enough or that

00:27:35.074 --> 00:27:39.654
I wasn't strong enough or that I wasn't lovable or that I wasn't cared about.

00:27:39.834 --> 00:27:42.434
All these things, it's like, are those really true?

00:27:42.634 --> 00:27:47.174
Are you still holding these assumptions about yourself that have been proven

00:27:47.174 --> 00:27:50.094
wrong time and time again? Because if all those were true, you wouldn't have

00:27:50.094 --> 00:27:51.254
been able to be a stashar in the army.

00:27:51.554 --> 00:27:54.954
You wouldn't have had a married wife that loved you, right? And all these things,

00:27:55.114 --> 00:27:56.534
it's like, these are just questions.

00:27:56.794 --> 00:28:00.074
You have to question these beliefs you've had because just because you've had

00:28:00.074 --> 00:28:05.514
a belief for 40 years or 80 or whatever it is, doesn't mean that it's correct, right?

00:28:06.190 --> 00:28:09.010
Right no exactly and you know i think one thing i've

00:28:09.010 --> 00:28:11.910
learned because i just recently i started like for the

00:28:11.910 --> 00:28:14.790
last couple years i've been doing this like energy

00:28:14.790 --> 00:28:17.890
healing because you know i didn't really believe into

00:28:17.890 --> 00:28:21.110
it too much when we when i first started doing it but then

00:28:21.110 --> 00:28:23.770
as we started getting into it i you know i noticed i

00:28:23.770 --> 00:28:26.650
start feeling better because we harbor a lot of the stuff

00:28:26.650 --> 00:28:29.910
that we go through when we're kids and we don't remember

00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:32.750
yeah and that's the thing you know when you don't remember

00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:35.830
so that's why you go see these people like energy healers

00:28:35.830 --> 00:28:38.510
because they're able to somehow some way be

00:28:38.510 --> 00:28:41.590
able to see like you know what's kind

00:28:41.590 --> 00:28:44.890
of going on you know and it's it was fucking weird and i think the one time

00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:49.390
that i really it clicked in my head that it actually works was i had this pain

00:28:49.390 --> 00:28:53.810
in my neck now and i was doing it kind of like this just over zoom having the

00:28:53.810 --> 00:28:57.390
session with her and she's like yeah i'm being told like you have this pain

00:28:57.390 --> 00:29:00.650
and pointed in the exact fucking spot I was having the pain.

00:29:00.810 --> 00:29:05.170
I'm like, and my mouth just dropped. It was like, holy fuck, how did you know?

00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:08.890
I didn't even fucking tell you about it. I was holding that in and not saying it about it.

00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:12.670
And then, you know, she was like, yeah, it's right over here.

00:29:12.770 --> 00:29:15.210
Tell me exactly what was going on. It's like, holy fuck.

00:29:15.790 --> 00:29:17.990
But, you know, you got, you know, I was putting in that work,

00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:22.050
especially with the PTSD to help make it a little bit easier.

00:29:22.050 --> 00:29:25.810
I mean, try to work on the issues that I might've had when I was a kid that I don't remember.

00:29:26.830 --> 00:29:31.150
And but I mean a lot of it a lot of the stuff that happens that make us who

00:29:31.150 --> 00:29:34.230
we are is a lot of the shit that's happened to us when we were kids that is

00:29:34.230 --> 00:29:37.070
so suppressed because of everything that's going on and,

00:29:37.923 --> 00:29:41.823
Unfortunately, we have to, and I believe you have to be able to deal with those

00:29:41.823 --> 00:29:46.903
things head on to be able to fully be able to recover from whatever trauma that

00:29:46.903 --> 00:29:47.683
you've been going through.

00:29:48.743 --> 00:29:53.203
100%. Because, you know, that's, I went to, before I went and finally got clean

00:29:53.203 --> 00:29:57.303
this last time, or got clean, you know, because I was never really trying to get recovery.

00:29:57.483 --> 00:30:00.523
I was never really, I wasn't ready to get clean yet because I liked my drugs

00:30:00.523 --> 00:30:03.283
and alcohol because they'd numb my pain, right? Temporarily.

00:30:03.883 --> 00:30:07.983
Caused more pain, but they numbed it, right? So when I went to seven rehabs,

00:30:08.003 --> 00:30:10.023
my seventh rehab is one of the one I got clean on. Right.

00:30:10.163 --> 00:30:14.743
And I never stayed. And if I did stay, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't serious about it.

00:30:14.763 --> 00:30:19.223
It was usually out for less than 24 hours before I got high or drunk and then or both.

00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:23.749
But this last time what had happened was I had all these, I had cases pending

00:30:23.749 --> 00:30:27.489
for forgery and I was just out there running amok and my wife was going to leave me.

00:30:27.649 --> 00:30:30.329
And it was just, my, my life was rock bottom again. You know what I mean?

00:30:30.389 --> 00:30:32.589
But you know, rock bottom has a basement sometimes.

00:30:32.789 --> 00:30:36.169
And it's like, yeah, I was just, I was just doing the most. And,

00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:39.769
and I got to rehab and I finally was just like, you know what?

00:30:40.489 --> 00:30:43.589
Everything was fucking just the worst it could be. And I was,

00:30:43.689 --> 00:30:47.629
and I was at rehab and I got caught using that rehab, believe it or not.

00:30:47.749 --> 00:30:51.169
Right. I was in there for like seven days or 10 days, whatever it was, and I got caught using.

00:30:51.589 --> 00:30:55.289
Well, and the director of the place was like, Jess, you know you're getting

00:30:55.289 --> 00:30:58.149
ready to go to prison if you don't knock it off back to prison.

00:30:58.669 --> 00:31:01.889
What are you doing? And I was like, I don't know, man. It's just what I'm so

00:31:01.889 --> 00:31:04.589
used to doing is finding a way to numb the pain, right?

00:31:05.769 --> 00:31:08.709
And that's a society thing, right? We don't want to feel pain.

00:31:08.769 --> 00:31:11.869
We want pleasure and least amount of work, right?

00:31:11.929 --> 00:31:15.269
And that's just kind of how I spent a lot of my life after the military.

00:31:16.189 --> 00:31:19.489
And at that point I was, he said, he had a conversation with me,

00:31:19.529 --> 00:31:20.969
this guy, Dylan, I'll never forget him.

00:31:21.389 --> 00:31:23.369
Uh, I still, I'm still, I've still in connection with him today.

00:31:23.449 --> 00:31:25.829
And he says, well, just, he said, what are you going to do if I,

00:31:25.869 --> 00:31:28.489
if I kick you out of this rehab today? I said, I'm going to go home and get high.

00:31:28.609 --> 00:31:31.369
He said, yeah, I know that, but what are you going to do if I let you stay?

00:31:31.489 --> 00:31:34.129
And I said, well, I'm going to, I'm going to change it. I'm going to do something

00:31:34.129 --> 00:31:37.969
different. He says, I don't believe you, but let's see, and let's give you a chance. And he did.

00:31:38.309 --> 00:31:41.529
And I decided to stay 60 days instead of the court order 30.

00:31:42.049 --> 00:31:44.889
I dug in, I started to talk I started to talk about the trauma from Iraq.

00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:48.369
I started to talk about the stuff that happened to me throughout my life that

00:31:48.369 --> 00:31:52.209
I wasn't able to ever talk about, or it wasn't that I wasn't able, I wasn't willing.

00:31:52.369 --> 00:31:56.429
Right. And that's, and it starts with that. Like you said, if you're not willing

00:31:56.429 --> 00:31:59.789
to talk about that tough stuff to figure out, because the reason you bring it

00:31:59.789 --> 00:32:04.429
up is like, goes back to what are these false beliefs you had about like Iraq

00:32:04.429 --> 00:32:06.529
was like people that got hurt in Iraq.

00:32:06.629 --> 00:32:10.669
Was there really anything else more that I could have done to help them not get hurt that night?

00:32:11.322 --> 00:32:14.802
Or on another day there, you know, when it comes down to it,

00:32:14.862 --> 00:32:17.662
I was, there was never any neglect on my part.

00:32:17.742 --> 00:32:21.582
There was never any nefarious at, you know, behavior of anybody in my position.

00:32:21.882 --> 00:32:26.162
Everybody did the best they could do throughout our tour to make sure we all got home. Right.

00:32:26.602 --> 00:32:30.202
As safe as we, there was never anybody that went into combat.

00:32:30.322 --> 00:32:34.882
My parents never went into any situation or a friend's never went into my situation.

00:32:34.882 --> 00:32:39.202
Like, let's see, let's go see how I can fuck Jess up today. That was never a situation.

00:32:39.362 --> 00:32:43.282
You know, I've been in, it was just that, I was put in unfortunate situations

00:32:43.282 --> 00:32:46.222
and unfortunate shit happened. And I have to grow from that now.

00:32:47.062 --> 00:32:52.682
Right. You know, and that's where people need to get to, you know,

00:32:52.802 --> 00:32:56.082
I know when I was in, you know, kind of similar situation when I was in rehab,

00:32:56.682 --> 00:32:59.962
you know, I would find an excuse, you know, when I was in the halfway house,

00:33:00.162 --> 00:33:03.662
you know, to stay out, you know, away.

00:33:03.662 --> 00:33:08.762
And I would go meet up with those people, go get high, go get drunk and all that stuff.

00:33:08.802 --> 00:33:11.602
And I'd come back to the rehab, you know, the halfway house that night.

00:33:12.082 --> 00:33:16.162
And then the next morning I have a drug test because they fucking knew,

00:33:16.262 --> 00:33:17.602
you know, I mean, they're not stupid.

00:33:18.102 --> 00:33:22.482
You know, they're like, okay, this guy was out, didn't come in until after curfew.

00:33:23.122 --> 00:33:27.182
And what somebody smelled booze. I mean, you can't mask booze,

00:33:27.242 --> 00:33:30.202
but when you're in, you know, when you're, when you're an addict,

00:33:30.442 --> 00:33:33.302
you think, well, I can drink this and nobody's going to smell it.

00:33:33.662 --> 00:33:37.582
I can smoke this and nobody's going to smell it. Or, you know, they fucking do.

00:33:37.902 --> 00:33:42.962
It's like their senses heighten when you're in these situations.

00:33:43.822 --> 00:33:47.322
And then they see your eyes and your eyes are all fucking bloodshot. You can't fucking hide.

00:33:47.942 --> 00:33:53.602
It's like, next day I wake up, here's a cup, go pee. Yeah. And it's like, fuck.

00:33:54.322 --> 00:33:57.162
You know, and I was in there, you know, court ordered as well. I'm like, I'm fucked.

00:33:57.362 --> 00:33:59.682
You know, and that's, you know, I'm just like, I'm going back.

00:33:59.862 --> 00:34:03.182
God, you know, I was so pissed at myself. But after that, I was like,

00:34:03.985 --> 00:34:06.705
You know, I took the drug test. It obviously came back negative,

00:34:06.885 --> 00:34:09.225
you know, positive that I was doing stuff.

00:34:10.065 --> 00:34:14.645
And they're like kind of similar situation. Like, you know, we can report this

00:34:14.645 --> 00:34:16.405
or you can actually start putting in the fucking work.

00:34:16.885 --> 00:34:19.825
Yeah. And so I'm like, yeah, it's time.

00:34:19.985 --> 00:34:23.325
You know, I put in the work because, you know, when you're 17,

00:34:23.465 --> 00:34:26.025
18 years old and you're being locked up for doing stupid shit,

00:34:26.825 --> 00:34:28.165
last place you want to go to is back.

00:34:28.625 --> 00:34:33.405
You know, you have an opportunity at that age or any age to better yourself.

00:34:33.405 --> 00:34:36.665
You don't want to reverse course and go back to the way you were.

00:34:37.085 --> 00:34:40.765
So, you know, but sometimes it takes multiple times.

00:34:40.945 --> 00:34:45.225
It's going to take people to stumble, to fall down.

00:34:45.505 --> 00:34:51.185
But having that person there to offer and extend like you had and I had,

00:34:51.345 --> 00:34:56.085
that last opportunity is all somebody needs.

00:34:56.305 --> 00:35:02.985
I mean, it goes a long way. And throughout all of my years of addiction,

00:35:03.485 --> 00:35:06.765
almost all of my, since I got out of prison,

00:35:07.469 --> 00:35:10.569
The last time, which was from Colorado, where I was in prison in Colorado,

00:35:10.649 --> 00:35:12.869
and I came back to Kansas, I had one person.

00:35:12.989 --> 00:35:15.709
It's a mentor of mine, and he stuck by me when nobody else. I mean,

00:35:15.789 --> 00:35:17.989
nobody stuck by me. Family, friends were gone.

00:35:18.209 --> 00:35:21.309
There was this one guy, and his name is Bob, and he stood by me,

00:35:21.329 --> 00:35:22.429
and he's still there today.

00:35:22.609 --> 00:35:26.089
And he stood by me when everybody was like, why are you helping this guy?

00:35:26.149 --> 00:35:28.909
Why are you trying to support this guy? He's a lost cause.

00:35:29.169 --> 00:35:31.589
He's no good. He's never going to change.

00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:37.069
And he's someone who has strong faith in God.

00:35:37.329 --> 00:35:43.529
And he was through all these relapses, through all these jail sentences and relationships.

00:35:44.029 --> 00:35:45.169
It's just all this.

00:35:45.929 --> 00:35:49.549
And I remember one time he told me, and I'll never forget what he told me.

00:35:49.629 --> 00:35:52.569
He says, and I didn't get clean then, but I remembered what he said, right?

00:35:52.949 --> 00:35:57.649
I said, he says, just until you find God, until you find a higher power.

00:35:57.649 --> 00:36:01.829
You know, and his God is Jesus Christ, which is mine as well,

00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:06.349
but I don't care who your God is as long as you have a higher power that's healthy,

00:36:06.709 --> 00:36:10.569
right, and doesn't incite murder, then—

00:36:10.899 --> 00:36:15.119
Right. It's like, as long as you have a higher, it's until you find a higher

00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:19.039
power, until you find something bigger than yourself to live for.

00:36:19.539 --> 00:36:22.599
Then you're always going to be in this situation, you know, and I,

00:36:22.659 --> 00:36:24.659
and I, and I, and it really hit me hard.

00:36:24.919 --> 00:36:27.679
And then when I went to rehab and all these things started happening for me

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.519
and, you know, and, and I, and I allowed God back into my life because God was

00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:33.439
always there for me, you know, and I'm not someone who, who,

00:36:33.579 --> 00:36:38.559
who preaches Christianity or tells you to have to go to church or anything like that.

00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:40.659
Cause I know, I know the church is full of people that are, that are,

00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:41.879
that are not good people. Right.

00:36:42.139 --> 00:36:44.039
The church is full of people that are good people. And it's like,

00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.739
so I always tell people and that I work with is in, you know,

00:36:47.759 --> 00:36:48.599
and that's what we use in the rooms.

00:36:48.699 --> 00:36:52.259
Recovery is always a higher power for, for, for most of the recovery programs.

00:36:52.379 --> 00:36:55.179
Right. And it's like, you know, there's Buddhist recovery out there.

00:36:55.279 --> 00:37:00.239
There's, I participate in celebrate recovery, which is a faith-based Christian recovery.

00:37:00.459 --> 00:37:05.479
I'm, I'm really involved in our NA downtown, which is Narcotics Anonymous here in town.

00:37:05.899 --> 00:37:09.599
I chair that meeting. I bring a meeting up to the VA, but I always tell people

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:10.679
it's a higher power thing.

00:37:10.819 --> 00:37:13.219
If you're the biggest thing in your life, if you're the, if you're,

00:37:13.319 --> 00:37:17.119
if you're the God of your own life, then man, you're going to have a really

00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:20.819
small world and you're going to have a really unhappy world because your God's

00:37:20.819 --> 00:37:22.659
going to depend on what your mood is that day. Right.

00:37:23.399 --> 00:37:27.059
Right. No, exactly. I know for me, I mean, when I was in rehab,

00:37:27.359 --> 00:37:29.659
you know, when I was going through my recovery and stuff like that,

00:37:29.759 --> 00:37:34.019
I mean, yeah, the higher power thing was a big, big thing.

00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:36.959
I mean, unfortunately for me, they were really pushing, you know,

00:37:37.059 --> 00:37:38.479
God and stuff like that. Yeah.

00:37:38.959 --> 00:37:44.039
And for me, you know, I grew up Lutheran. I was kind of forced to go to church.

00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:46.879
You know, I mean, that was the typical thing, you know, growing up for me.

00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:50.939
It's like, okay, you got to go to church. You go into church until you confirmation

00:37:50.939 --> 00:37:54.379
and all that stuff. And then you can make your choice if you want to continue going.

00:37:54.819 --> 00:38:00.199
I was the guy that would ditch confirmation classes because I just couldn't understand.

00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:02.939
It just wasn't resonating with me.

00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:08.199
So I was that guy ditching those classes and all that stuff and just kind of doing whatever.

00:38:08.779 --> 00:38:14.199
Yeah. For me, when I truly understood about like the higher power and stuff

00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:18.359
like that, I mean, luckily for me, I was able to, you know, complete my recovery.

00:38:18.359 --> 00:38:21.199
And I haven't touched any of this stuff since, you know, the heart,

00:38:21.319 --> 00:38:24.099
you know, the stuff that got me in there, I should say. Mm hmm.

00:38:25.123 --> 00:38:30.703
But it was after my father passed. I was in a very, very dark fucking place.

00:38:30.803 --> 00:38:35.083
I was drinking a lot and just like, I used to smoke cigarettes all the time.

00:38:35.083 --> 00:38:36.883
And I was up to like three packs a day.

00:38:37.443 --> 00:38:41.843
And I was like trying to like just fucking whatever.

00:38:43.103 --> 00:38:48.283
Just let it fucking happen. Yeah. And that's when I found my,

00:38:48.483 --> 00:38:50.963
I guess you can say my calling or whatever.

00:38:51.103 --> 00:38:54.323
And that's when I turned to Norse paganism. and yeah

00:38:54.323 --> 00:38:57.243
i really resonated with it because it made

00:38:57.243 --> 00:39:00.263
sense to me yeah you know it it

00:39:00.263 --> 00:39:03.123
and again it doesn't matter if you're you're christian you're

00:39:03.123 --> 00:39:05.883
pagan you're whatever it's about that higher power and what you

00:39:05.883 --> 00:39:09.383
resonate with i mean because ultimately you know

00:39:09.383 --> 00:39:12.163
it's all you know as long as you're not like you said

00:39:12.163 --> 00:39:15.003
again like as long as your god isn't calling for

00:39:15.003 --> 00:39:18.723
death destruction chaos you know like

00:39:18.723 --> 00:39:21.603
some religions are which we won't discuss right now

00:39:21.603 --> 00:39:24.363
that we'll save that for another show because i would love to have your

00:39:24.363 --> 00:39:28.643
take on that yeah i really would but you

00:39:28.643 --> 00:39:32.683
know when it kind of came to me it was just like it was very calming and

00:39:32.683 --> 00:39:35.363
it got me out of that hole it got me out of

00:39:35.363 --> 00:39:42.203
that darkness and it's been great ever since and i've you know i've i've just

00:39:42.203 --> 00:39:46.503
been able to move forward with it and a lot of the and there's a lot of the

00:39:46.503 --> 00:39:50.863
same principles with Norse paganism and with Christianity because a lot of the

00:39:50.863 --> 00:39:54.123
pagan aspects of it was brought over into Christianity,

00:39:54.123 --> 00:39:58.683
which helped to make it a lot easier, but just being able to resonate with it.

00:39:58.763 --> 00:40:03.563
Like I can go out, go for a walk just to calm myself and talk just like how

00:40:03.563 --> 00:40:04.683
I'm talking to you. And yeah.

00:40:05.372 --> 00:40:09.452
You know, I just have this calm, you know, if I'm just having a bad day, I see a symbol.

00:40:09.572 --> 00:40:14.092
It's like, it just brings this, this, just the calmness over me,

00:40:14.232 --> 00:40:17.832
you know, it's just, but I mean, that's, if it wasn't for that,

00:40:17.952 --> 00:40:21.192
I don't, I honestly don't know if I'd be here today, but I don't think we'd

00:40:21.192 --> 00:40:22.052
be having this conversation.

00:40:23.052 --> 00:40:26.412
100%. And that's, and here's, and I'm glad you brought that up about the religion

00:40:26.412 --> 00:40:30.592
thing is because yeah. And we could talk all day about a lot, I know quite a bit.

00:40:30.692 --> 00:40:34.132
I mean, I don't know extensively, but I know a lot about different religions,

00:40:34.152 --> 00:40:38.292
you know, And Norse paganism, that's where Christianity got its start from.

00:40:38.412 --> 00:40:41.352
All my Christian followers and my family would probably hate me for that,

00:40:41.392 --> 00:40:44.232
but I know enough about it is there's too many similarities for it not to be

00:40:44.232 --> 00:40:47.732
kind of a move off that, right?

00:40:48.232 --> 00:40:52.212
And then, I mean, the similarities are just almost identical, right? Yeah.

00:40:52.952 --> 00:40:55.312
So anyways, like I said, but-

00:40:56.064 --> 00:40:59.784
The thing, the problem is with the higher power is when people hear higher power

00:40:59.784 --> 00:41:04.184
that grew up, like I was forced to go to Catholic church, Catholic school,

00:41:04.344 --> 00:41:05.544
I was before it shut down.

00:41:05.664 --> 00:41:07.964
I think kindergarten, I made it and then they shut the school down and,

00:41:08.084 --> 00:41:09.124
but I was always made to go.

00:41:09.204 --> 00:41:12.464
My parents made me go to church, but they never participated in it.

00:41:12.524 --> 00:41:15.544
They made us ride the bus and then we had a church band that come out and get

00:41:15.544 --> 00:41:17.544
us on the farm, but they never were there.

00:41:17.644 --> 00:41:20.724
They were just like, go, you have to go, you know, whatever it is.

00:41:20.824 --> 00:41:25.504
So, and it was never, it was always a religion thing and not a spirituality thing. Right.

00:41:25.644 --> 00:41:30.424
And, and so I, and like many others, we, you kind of grow to resent church, right?

00:41:30.564 --> 00:41:33.984
Or especially if you had a bad experience in church and there's so much of the

00:41:33.984 --> 00:41:36.444
church people that I, people that I talked to recover, they're like,

00:41:36.504 --> 00:41:37.804
man, I had a bad experience at church.

00:41:38.384 --> 00:41:41.924
Either it was trauma or it was just people rejected me or whatever it was.

00:41:42.104 --> 00:41:44.284
So from then on there, when you, and that's the problem with church,

00:41:44.304 --> 00:41:47.384
it pisses me off so bad is the closed mindedness that happens at church.

00:41:47.524 --> 00:41:50.984
And it's like, if you drive somebody out, you may be driving them out to their fucking demise.

00:41:50.984 --> 00:41:54.144
Right they may go out there and never come back again because of one

00:41:54.144 --> 00:41:57.104
bad person that that fucked him up as a six-year-old and

00:41:57.104 --> 00:42:00.104
it's like you know and that's why i'm so careful about you

00:42:00.104 --> 00:42:02.904
know the church that i'm involved with my kids with yes i'm involved with the church in town here

00:42:02.904 --> 00:42:07.124
and i and i've and it took me a year to start going to this church because i'm

00:42:07.124 --> 00:42:10.564
really skeptical about who my family and who i trust my family with right and

00:42:10.564 --> 00:42:15.344
that's one of those things is like the church has drove so many people out and

00:42:15.344 --> 00:42:20.004
gave such a bad name to a lot of people secondary bad names well I had a friend

00:42:20.004 --> 00:42:22.204
that got touched when they were a kid in the Catholic church. Right.

00:42:22.324 --> 00:42:24.384
So, so they don't want to partner with it. Right. And it's like,

00:42:24.924 --> 00:42:28.024
would you, what I always try to tell people and the people that have the heart,

00:42:28.164 --> 00:42:30.944
the hardest time in recovery are the ones that struggle with the higher power thing.

00:42:31.204 --> 00:42:34.824
And it's generally, it's back into the church. So what I try to explain to people

00:42:34.824 --> 00:42:39.444
is like, just have a power that's bigger than you. That has to be bigger than you. Right.

00:42:39.604 --> 00:42:42.404
Whether, you know, like the native Americans explain it as like they're,

00:42:42.464 --> 00:42:44.444
they're, they have the great spirit. Right. It's just.

00:42:45.046 --> 00:42:48.686
The spirit, it's like one spirit that just, and I kind of explain it's like,

00:42:48.786 --> 00:42:53.346
just whether it's karma, whether whatever you want it to be that's bigger than you.

00:42:53.426 --> 00:42:56.946
A lot of times it's something as the recovery room that you're involved with

00:42:56.946 --> 00:43:00.006
or your family, as long as it's a bigger idea than you.

00:43:00.166 --> 00:43:03.386
Right. And that's what the thing about it is, is finding that higher power.

00:43:03.526 --> 00:43:07.686
And it kind of comes with, like you said, taking those walks and just kind of,

00:43:07.986 --> 00:43:11.306
you know, prayer is asking for something or praying to God in meditation.

00:43:11.466 --> 00:43:14.826
As we explain it is listening to your higher power, listening

00:43:14.826 --> 00:43:17.646
to whatever higher power decides that you know that you

00:43:17.646 --> 00:43:20.426
feel like you can be receptive towards and that's kind

00:43:20.426 --> 00:43:23.746
of thing about it is and all that all comes back into well when

00:43:23.746 --> 00:43:26.666
you get when you're tired of getting your ass kicked by drugs and alcohol

00:43:26.666 --> 00:43:30.726
or addiction whether it's gambling porn whatever that addiction is you have

00:43:30.726 --> 00:43:34.866
work whatever it is that you have you know you'll you'll start opening your

00:43:34.866 --> 00:43:38.826
mind to those to those different those different ideas and whether it's whether

00:43:38.826 --> 00:43:42.866
it's buddhist whether it's christianity whatever it is you find as long as it's

00:43:42.866 --> 00:43:44.926
bigger than you, man, then you're on your way.

00:43:45.446 --> 00:43:50.346
Yeah, no, exactly. And, you know, I think it was for me, the thing that got

00:43:50.346 --> 00:43:55.306
me to, you know, out of my situation was because, you know, for me not having.

00:43:56.046 --> 00:44:00.226
The higher power because it was like, it was hard for me was just,

00:44:00.446 --> 00:44:04.526
I think the fear aspect of being that young and the chance of going back,

00:44:04.686 --> 00:44:07.906
that's what really got me to be like, no,

00:44:08.046 --> 00:44:11.246
I can't do this anymore and you know go i'm just

00:44:11.246 --> 00:44:16.366
lucky it found me when i needed it the most you know because if it again if

00:44:16.366 --> 00:44:20.186
it didn't this we wouldn't you know this conversation wouldn't be happening

00:44:20.186 --> 00:44:26.506
and i'm glad that it did happen so yeah we have some other pictures i don't

00:44:26.506 --> 00:44:29.666
do you want to go over some of these other pictures that you sent me throw them up throw them up.

00:44:30.462 --> 00:44:35.482
All right. So let's see here. We are going to go with, we'll go with this one first.

00:44:35.702 --> 00:44:37.942
Tell us, tell me about this one. I know it looks a little distorted.

00:44:38.062 --> 00:44:38.802
It was a little small one.

00:44:39.062 --> 00:44:42.222
Yeah. That's an old picture. That was in Iraq, man. I was in Iraq.

00:44:42.302 --> 00:44:44.122
That was right outside of Belong. That was, you know, that was,

00:44:44.182 --> 00:44:47.682
I think a week or a month before I got blown up. I know I have the date on one

00:44:47.682 --> 00:44:48.422
of the, one of the pictures.

00:44:48.562 --> 00:44:51.302
I can't remember which one it is, but are the same month. That's that right

00:44:51.302 --> 00:44:54.442
there is, well, see that weapon, that little sniper rifle we're using right there.

00:44:54.742 --> 00:44:59.402
We made this gun out of an M14. We had in the arms room from back in, you know,

00:44:59.582 --> 00:45:02.922
Vietnam or, or whenever that was from the m14 and

00:45:02.922 --> 00:45:06.022
we we custom put handrails on it we got

00:45:06.022 --> 00:45:09.022
a scope downtown at the local gun store uh before

00:45:09.022 --> 00:45:11.822
we deployed they gave us a whole bunch of money for for our platoon and for

00:45:11.822 --> 00:45:14.882
our unit when we deployed and we turned this little gun into and it's actually

00:45:14.882 --> 00:45:20.102
a hell of an accurate little sniper rifle we had over there because the m24s

00:45:20.102 --> 00:45:25.022
was well there was the it was it was a 308 it's what you use in cyber school

00:45:25.022 --> 00:45:29.942
but uh we didn't have see is and although i went Went to sniper school.

00:45:30.162 --> 00:45:33.082
We didn't, I wasn't ever a part of a sniper team. I wasn't ever as far as a

00:45:33.082 --> 00:45:38.002
sniper unit we had. We did sniper operations with a good who went to sniper school with me.

00:45:38.422 --> 00:45:41.982
And we actually, we did a couple. We never really had any success with our sniper

00:45:41.982 --> 00:45:42.822
because we were our scouts.

00:45:42.902 --> 00:45:46.222
And so we spent 90% of our time driving up and down a road looking for IEDs.

00:45:46.302 --> 00:45:48.302
That was IED warfare was kind of what it was.

00:45:49.295 --> 00:45:54.955
After the initial push, when they invaded Baghdad and Fallujah and all those

00:45:54.955 --> 00:45:59.215
fell, it was kind of like more like insurgency warfare.

00:45:59.795 --> 00:46:03.415
Okay, yeah, and I just looked at the other picture because I don't believe I

00:46:03.415 --> 00:46:06.715
have that one up here. So this one is from 5 to 2006.

00:46:07.255 --> 00:46:13.435
Yeah, and I got blown up on 5-18 of 2006. So that was two weeks before that. Wow.

00:46:13.935 --> 00:46:18.175
Yeah, that was right there. That was right down by the Tigris River right there in Anaconda.

00:46:18.175 --> 00:46:21.455
Right now anaconda was our it was it's a legit lsa stands

00:46:21.455 --> 00:46:24.595
for uh logistical server surveillance area what it

00:46:24.595 --> 00:46:27.675
was just a big it was it was just supply it

00:46:27.675 --> 00:46:30.395
was just a supply route right and there was trucks coming in all day long

00:46:30.395 --> 00:46:33.355
so vehicles would come in all day long for supplies

00:46:33.355 --> 00:46:36.695
and stuff like that so we always have to have the route clear for them because

00:46:36.695 --> 00:46:41.295
in a near urgency they would be they didn't really like to hit they were their

00:46:41.295 --> 00:46:45.895
really intentions weren't to hit the combat the infantry the scout guys as much

00:46:45.895 --> 00:46:50.775
they tried to go after the targets they could that were supply guys or fuelers

00:46:50.775 --> 00:46:53.795
or something like that because they were targets right i mean and

00:46:54.195 --> 00:46:57.835
security that was with them was usually they usually had an infantry's unit

00:46:57.835 --> 00:47:01.355
or somebody attached to them but they were their job was just kind of like push

00:47:01.355 --> 00:47:05.615
through the area and not sit up and do you know we qrf would come in and but

00:47:05.615 --> 00:47:09.475
our job was just kind of keep those routes clear uh we kicked in a lot of doors

00:47:09.475 --> 00:47:10.935
did a lot of stuff like that i mean it was a.

00:47:11.549 --> 00:47:14.789
We did a lot of hearts and minds stuff too, man. And people get a bad view about

00:47:14.789 --> 00:47:17.649
all Iraqis are bad and all the people are bad. They're really not.

00:47:18.029 --> 00:47:21.949
But a lot of them are just trying to survive, dude. And if you invaded my country,

00:47:21.969 --> 00:47:23.209
I'd be trying to blow you up too.

00:47:24.069 --> 00:47:26.989
Right. And, you know, I've heard that same thing from both my brothers.

00:47:27.189 --> 00:47:31.749
Like, you know, you have some people that were over there in Afghanistan that

00:47:31.749 --> 00:47:33.009
they didn't want you there.

00:47:33.229 --> 00:47:37.129
But you had a handful of people that wanted you there to clean it up so they

00:47:37.129 --> 00:47:38.109
could actually live free.

00:47:38.569 --> 00:47:43.129
You know and for all for all you guys that you know sacrificed as much as you

00:47:43.129 --> 00:47:49.169
guys did i mean i can't thank you enough and you know and you know and i'm sure

00:47:49.169 --> 00:47:51.689
a lot of other americans can't thank you guys enough because if it wasn't for

00:47:51.689 --> 00:47:54.469
you guys this would be a completely different,

00:47:55.109 --> 00:48:00.509
scenario i think that we'd be in now we got let's see here we got this one oh

00:48:00.509 --> 00:48:03.489
this was uh this is our this was actually our uh.

00:48:04.509 --> 00:48:07.529
Another guy in our unit this was not my humvee but this was this was obviously

00:48:07.529 --> 00:48:10.409
a 50 cal this is a buddy of mine we had this little raven right here this

00:48:10.409 --> 00:48:13.309
was before the days well it was we had this was a little drone

00:48:13.309 --> 00:48:16.149
is what that was okay yeah i was gonna it's an

00:48:16.149 --> 00:48:18.929
airplane well here's how ghetto it was you dude this was

00:48:18.929 --> 00:48:21.869
2005 2006 so we took off you ran with

00:48:21.869 --> 00:48:24.569
this thing and took off with it like an airplane right and then you

00:48:24.569 --> 00:48:27.209
had a real control that was driving around it was

00:48:27.209 --> 00:48:30.049
cold the rain and this thing would fucking go down all the time like

00:48:30.049 --> 00:48:32.789
we it would go down so we had to go gather it up right so they didn't

00:48:32.789 --> 00:48:35.529
get it so every time he would go down he'd be calling us up

00:48:35.529 --> 00:48:38.329
on qrf like hey we had another raven go down go find a fucking

00:48:38.329 --> 00:48:41.449
thing and some sure enough some iraqi dude would have it some farmer

00:48:41.449 --> 00:48:45.869
would be like here you go man here's your fucking broken down ass plane back you

00:48:45.869 --> 00:48:48.629
know how you describe how

00:48:48.629 --> 00:48:51.449
you they take off it reminds me remember those when you're a kid those

00:48:51.449 --> 00:48:54.309
styrofoam planes yeah exactly it sounds

00:48:54.309 --> 00:48:57.409
like one of those and i'm just like holy shit

00:48:57.409 --> 00:49:00.749
i mean because that almost kind of like almost like looks like it just

00:49:00.749 --> 00:49:04.029
a bet just imagine how our technology has just come

00:49:04.029 --> 00:49:06.789
like to where we're at today we start from here

00:49:06.789 --> 00:49:10.189
and where we're at today it's like holy fuck it's crazy

00:49:10.189 --> 00:49:14.269
isn't it it is it is and it's you know we had we had a lot of cool equipment

00:49:14.269 --> 00:49:17.869
then we had a lot of stuff that was just like we had ied blockers and stuff

00:49:17.869 --> 00:49:21.569
like that that were in the humvees that worked on the radio frequencies and

00:49:21.569 --> 00:49:24.309
that's why like the al-qaeda so people understand about the these al-qaeda men

00:49:24.309 --> 00:49:26.969
in iraq and afghanistan all these third world countries, man,

00:49:27.049 --> 00:49:28.609
they're good at one thing and that's combat, right?

00:49:28.729 --> 00:49:31.849
And that's one thing they're fucking good at. If we would adapt, they would adapt.

00:49:32.049 --> 00:49:34.569
We would adapt to their new technologies and they would adapt to ours.

00:49:34.689 --> 00:49:37.289
That's where the pressure plate IDs came in because we kept blocking the radio

00:49:37.289 --> 00:49:39.089
frequencies from the handhelds going off.

00:49:40.654 --> 00:49:43.454
Because they would hook a radio up or a cell phone and they called a cell phone

00:49:43.454 --> 00:49:44.634
and it would blow the bomb up, right?

00:49:44.974 --> 00:49:48.154
Well, they figured out that we found a way to block those signals, right?

00:49:48.474 --> 00:49:51.474
So what they did was they started laying wire down to where you drive across

00:49:51.474 --> 00:49:54.294
the road. It would connect and blow up or the pressure plate.

00:49:54.774 --> 00:49:58.234
So they would adapt to their warfare.

00:49:58.954 --> 00:50:03.534
Well, and I think what people don't understand, I think a lot of countries over

00:50:03.534 --> 00:50:07.294
there, especially in the Middle East, I know especially in China too,

00:50:07.534 --> 00:50:10.074
they start at a very young age.

00:50:10.194 --> 00:50:14.474
To learn about firearms, how to fire warfare, all that stuff.

00:50:14.594 --> 00:50:18.554
And they do it for a reason where, you know, back here in the States in America,

00:50:18.554 --> 00:50:20.334
we have the luxury of schools.

00:50:20.334 --> 00:50:25.434
We have the luxury of being children. We have the luxury of growing up and over

00:50:25.434 --> 00:50:29.894
there, that luxury is completely gone, you know, because they don't know what's going to happen.

00:50:30.114 --> 00:50:33.914
You know, you have all these countries that are constantly fighting each other for whatever.

00:50:34.054 --> 00:50:37.134
I mean, you have Iran fighting Syria or, you know,

00:50:37.134 --> 00:50:40.254
iraq fighting afghanistan or afghanistan fighting with

00:50:40.254 --> 00:50:43.014
you know saudi whatever you know

00:50:43.014 --> 00:50:45.914
iraq fighting with saudi whatever it is so these kids i

00:50:45.914 --> 00:50:49.814
mean at a young age it's like they're thrust into being adults like right away

00:50:49.814 --> 00:50:55.254
100 yeah we have so many sorry we have so many people i mean the biggest and

00:50:55.254 --> 00:50:58.414
that's what's crazy about these people is like these people that they they have

00:50:58.414 --> 00:51:01.974
no respect for life like we they respect you know we see it we see a child die

00:51:01.974 --> 00:51:04.114
and it just kills us for life Ruins a person for life.

00:51:05.054 --> 00:51:07.174
I mean, it's just like an everyday thing for them. You know,

00:51:07.214 --> 00:51:08.494
they would target their own schools.

00:51:08.654 --> 00:51:11.314
You know, they're, they're, they're, they're, whosoever they were against.

00:51:11.454 --> 00:51:14.014
Cause you know, a lot of that was, you know, the Shiites and the Sunnis battling

00:51:14.014 --> 00:51:17.694
or the Kurds there, you know, whoever it was, the Kurds were a real small minority

00:51:17.694 --> 00:51:20.574
there, but the Shiites and the Sunnis were always battling each other.

00:51:20.674 --> 00:51:22.514
Right. The bath party was always going to, you know, they were,

00:51:22.574 --> 00:51:25.854
when they were coming out of power and it's like, they would just be destroying

00:51:25.854 --> 00:51:28.614
each other's kids in school. We had, we don't want to tell them to go to schools too.

00:51:29.473 --> 00:51:32.473
Firefights would take days they deliver us to a school to have a firefight with

00:51:32.473 --> 00:51:35.133
us you know what i mean just be like these people it's like

00:51:35.133 --> 00:51:37.873
people don't understand how lucky we are to

00:51:37.873 --> 00:51:40.273
grow up and that's why i always tell people all these people post online like

00:51:40.273 --> 00:51:43.793
man i wish you would go visit a third world country and go do some service work

00:51:43.793 --> 00:51:49.433
there and see how much you'll respect life after all that man because you know

00:51:49.433 --> 00:51:52.513
south korea is a good example south korea is a beautiful country it's amazing

00:51:52.513 --> 00:51:55.773
but they always have that constant threat of the north right 38 parallel i was

00:51:55.773 --> 00:51:57.413
right beside that. I was right up on it.

00:51:57.733 --> 00:52:01.193
I trained by it all the time back in 2003.

00:52:02.833 --> 00:52:06.113
The thing about it is those kids in South Korea, they all have to do it,

00:52:06.113 --> 00:52:09.633
I think, a year, two years, whatever it is, maybe three. I'm not sure what it

00:52:09.633 --> 00:52:10.893
is, but they all have to do service.

00:52:11.033 --> 00:52:13.353
If you're a male, you have to go and do service.

00:52:13.733 --> 00:52:16.233
It's either they're all okay with the Republic of Korea army,

00:52:16.273 --> 00:52:19.433
or a lot of them got to be in the Katusa army, which is the Korean argumentation

00:52:19.433 --> 00:52:22.593
to the US army, where they were US soldiers with us for a while.

00:52:22.733 --> 00:52:27.933
But they all had to serve, which I think is a great idea it's just my opinion

00:52:27.933 --> 00:52:32.193
I know that's a little that's a little too authoritarianism you know but I just.

00:52:33.333 --> 00:52:38.453
I 100% agree with you I think that you know if we had that here I think things would be a lot different.

00:52:39.564 --> 00:52:43.684
Especially with, you know, in certain demographics, I think it would be a lot different.

00:52:43.804 --> 00:52:47.864
I think people would grow up a lot faster, be more responsible.

00:52:48.404 --> 00:52:51.564
I know other countries. I know my wife, she's Greek. She's from Greece.

00:52:51.704 --> 00:52:54.024
And that's one thing that they have there where they have to serve,

00:52:54.304 --> 00:52:56.884
I think it's like two or three years mandatory if you're a male.

00:52:57.244 --> 00:53:00.204
A lot of countries. More countries are that aren't, I believe.

00:53:00.324 --> 00:53:03.804
You know what I mean? It's like, because you never know when something happens and all like that.

00:53:03.964 --> 00:53:07.064
It teaches you a newfound respect and discipline for your country.

00:53:07.264 --> 00:53:10.284
And it's like this, now I have, instead of being like all these and

00:53:10.284 --> 00:53:13.064
that's the biggest thing i hate seeing these days it's kind of tangent it's like

00:53:13.064 --> 00:53:15.724
the the disrespect towards our shoulders like when

00:53:15.724 --> 00:53:18.644
i got back from iraq man i everybody i saw in the grocery store

00:53:18.644 --> 00:53:21.904
would be like thank you for your service i didn't like wearing my uniform out

00:53:21.904 --> 00:53:26.284
after work because well first of all because you're not supposed to but because

00:53:26.284 --> 00:53:28.804
i would always get attention that i didn't want people would be paying for my

00:53:28.804 --> 00:53:32.144
gas and you know like and because everybody loved us because the war was going

00:53:32.144 --> 00:53:36.844
on right now people it's It's like the hate for the military is like,

00:53:36.864 --> 00:53:40.724
I never thought I would see that after serving in the army. I never thought

00:53:40.724 --> 00:53:42.244
I would see that in America, especially this.

00:53:42.464 --> 00:53:46.604
I'm 42 and I was, you know, I got out when I was 26. I never thought 15 years

00:53:46.604 --> 00:53:49.704
later, this would be the situation that I'd be witnessing.

00:53:49.944 --> 00:53:54.764
Yeah, no, it, you know, it sickens me because, you know, knowing,

00:53:55.004 --> 00:53:58.504
you know, not being there, but talking with other, you know, military.

00:53:58.664 --> 00:54:02.224
Military has been a big thing in my family for, you know, a lot of the family

00:54:02.224 --> 00:54:07.484
members. I tried to go after 9-11, but because of my past at that time,

00:54:07.624 --> 00:54:08.664
they're like, no, we can't take you.

00:54:09.624 --> 00:54:15.264
That's precisely why my brother, he joined right after 9-11 because he was, you know,

00:54:15.817 --> 00:54:18.997
He just, he was pissed, you know, let's just be honest. A lot of people that

00:54:18.997 --> 00:54:23.017
joined after 9-11 were pissed off at what happened and wanted to get that revenge

00:54:23.017 --> 00:54:26.417
or whatever it was that was going on.

00:54:27.077 --> 00:54:30.937
You know, my brother, he wanted, I'll be honest, he wanted revenge for what

00:54:30.937 --> 00:54:33.677
happened. And, you know, I can't blame people for joining for that.

00:54:34.277 --> 00:54:37.457
You know, and I know the stories that he told me when he was there,

00:54:37.497 --> 00:54:40.277
because he was on Humvee, he was a gunner on Humvee at one point.

00:54:41.117 --> 00:54:46.137
And his first time back after serving one tour over there he was showing me

00:54:46.137 --> 00:54:50.337
pictures of Iraq and he was like yeah and he was telling me the story how I

00:54:50.337 --> 00:54:54.517
was on the Humvee and I guess you guys got some armor that you guys wear.

00:54:55.277 --> 00:54:58.937
When you're on there and he gets he was telling me he got pegged in the chest

00:54:58.937 --> 00:55:04.417
pegged in the back because the 50 cal was out and by the time he got the 50 cal back up and going,

00:55:05.037 --> 00:55:07.977
then we start going through the pictures he's like see this right over here and he's

00:55:07.977 --> 00:55:10.837
pointing to this fucking just obscure thing

00:55:10.837 --> 00:55:13.617
that was there i'm like yeah i'm like what the fuck is that he's like remember how

00:55:13.617 --> 00:55:16.397
i told you the story about i got hit in the chest in the back

00:55:16.397 --> 00:55:19.477
with you know from shots i'm like yeah he's like well

00:55:19.477 --> 00:55:22.337
this is his leg that's his torso that's his arm

00:55:22.337 --> 00:55:25.577
and my first response to my brother was like what the

00:55:25.577 --> 00:55:28.657
fuck did they do to you over there you know because that

00:55:28.657 --> 00:55:31.997
that was to me at the time was just so fucking like that's morbid

00:55:31.997 --> 00:55:35.117
you know you're showing me pictures of this like yeah what

00:55:35.117 --> 00:55:41.377
the fuck happened and you know then he started you know but I think what people

00:55:41.377 --> 00:55:45.557
also don't understand with that like my brother was so gung-ho you like he went

00:55:45.557 --> 00:55:49.137
over there did multiple tours yeah and then he went to South Korea he he put

00:55:49.137 --> 00:55:54.777
himself in harm's way all the time anytime he could and for him I'm,

00:55:55.229 --> 00:55:58.489
You know, he told me stories in Afghanistan where they were given the order

00:55:58.489 --> 00:56:00.989
to stand down, even though they were being shot at.

00:56:01.149 --> 00:56:04.749
And the reason why they gave the order to stand down was because they were holding

00:56:04.749 --> 00:56:07.209
kids in front of them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A shield.

00:56:07.789 --> 00:56:12.409
And that's what I'm saying. The value for life that we hold is not what so many

00:56:12.409 --> 00:56:13.969
hold. You know what I mean? People see. Right.

00:56:14.729 --> 00:56:17.729
We see children as a gift and, you know, as a future. You know,

00:56:17.769 --> 00:56:21.149
a lot of people see as a shield or whatever it is, you know.

00:56:21.269 --> 00:56:29.689
And that's so important to. And all this stuff is stuff that I bring into recovery today, right?

00:56:29.869 --> 00:56:33.489
And it's like bringing all that stuff is a background that most people don't

00:56:33.489 --> 00:56:37.689
have, right? To be able to talk about, well, I went, and here's the thing.

00:56:37.789 --> 00:56:40.809
It's like people think that your brother that went through all that stuff is

00:56:40.809 --> 00:56:43.989
like, how do you adjust after that to life, right?

00:56:44.129 --> 00:56:47.589
And the story is there's a lot of us that are just like me. They're sitting

00:56:47.589 --> 00:56:48.669
in prison for life right now.

00:56:48.829 --> 00:56:52.009
There's a lot of us that are just like me. They're one of those 22 a day veterans

00:56:52.009 --> 00:56:56.269
who commit suicide, you know, and especially this time of year.

00:56:56.389 --> 00:56:58.709
And it's like the battle doesn't change.

00:56:58.829 --> 00:57:01.969
Like I said, I've been out of Iraq for coming up on 20 years.

00:57:02.989 --> 00:57:05.849
And some nights it's like, I'm still there.

00:57:05.909 --> 00:57:07.729
And that's in my dreams, you know,

00:57:07.869 --> 00:57:11.169
in some nights, some days and in my nights, and I'm not going to lie.

00:57:11.249 --> 00:57:15.609
My nights are so bad sometimes that I'm exhausted all day because of my nightmare.

00:57:15.769 --> 00:57:18.809
I'm exhausted because it's just taking the energy out of me because it's,

00:57:18.909 --> 00:57:23.849
you've had nightmares and I'm sure you, people that will hear this nightmares

00:57:23.849 --> 00:57:28.109
that are so real, you swear you're back there and you wake up in it in a bad mood because of it.

00:57:28.229 --> 00:57:31.889
And you feel like you just, no matter how much sleep you get,

00:57:32.009 --> 00:57:32.909
you're fucking exhausted.

00:57:33.449 --> 00:57:36.149
Oh yeah oh exactly you know what

00:57:36.149 --> 00:57:39.589
sleep is for me sleep is still

00:57:39.589 --> 00:57:42.749
you know i i think i average maybe if

00:57:42.749 --> 00:57:46.329
i'm lucky four or five hours a night yeah you know sleep you know and that's

00:57:46.329 --> 00:57:49.369
something that people also don't understand like when you have ptsd and stuff

00:57:49.369 --> 00:57:53.989
when you're reliving these things i mean you're i mean you're always you're

00:57:53.989 --> 00:57:57.429
sleeping very lightly you're always sleeping basically like you sleep with one

00:57:57.429 --> 00:58:01.069
eye open that's kind of the what's going on i mean the slightest movement,

00:58:01.209 --> 00:58:04.009
the slightest sound, the slightest whatever, you're fucking awake.

00:58:05.089 --> 00:58:08.609
I can just imagine for the military guys, ex-military like you,

00:58:08.689 --> 00:58:11.289
my brother, and stuff like that, I know how it is for me,

00:58:12.509 --> 00:58:15.229
when I have those nightmares and not sleeping and all that stuff,

00:58:15.289 --> 00:58:19.609
but for you guys, I can just imagine because I know when fireworks would go

00:58:19.609 --> 00:58:21.209
off, that would trigger my brother.

00:58:22.589 --> 00:58:27.689
Certain circumstances, large crowds, it's completely 100% understandable,

00:58:27.729 --> 00:58:30.209
but a lot of people don't understand that.

00:58:30.309 --> 00:58:33.529
They're like, what it's just fireworks you know i've yelled at people when they

00:58:33.529 --> 00:58:38.529
were laying off fireworks you know buddy mine has ptsd and we were just sitting

00:58:38.529 --> 00:58:41.369
out in front of my house and the neighbor down the street was lighting off fireworks

00:58:41.369 --> 00:58:45.469
and i you can literally see the change in the demeanor,

00:58:46.069 --> 00:58:49.689
and as soon as i saw that i'm like you all right brother and he's like he's

00:58:49.689 --> 00:58:53.009
like yeah i'll be all right i'm like are you sure he's like yeah and then fucking

00:58:53.009 --> 00:58:56.809
goes off again i'm like i'm like sit in the garage but i'll be right back i

00:58:56.809 --> 00:58:59.049
went down there i'm like hey you need to stop lighting that shit off.

00:58:59.149 --> 00:59:02.709
I have somebody, PTSD, ex-military guy here, knock the shit off.

00:59:03.619 --> 00:59:07.439
You know, it's great you want to do all this shit, but it's fucking still daylight out.

00:59:07.659 --> 00:59:12.179
Yeah. Like, you don't need to be fucking lighting this shit off right now. Right.

00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.199
But, you know, it's, you know, people, people don't really understand that.

00:59:17.279 --> 00:59:20.559
And I think more awareness, and I think one thing that I hope with this episode

00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:23.939
and this show right now is for anybody that's listening, watching,

00:59:23.939 --> 00:59:30.219
they get more of an understanding about it, you know, with the recovery that is needed.

00:59:30.219 --> 00:59:34.759
You know, it's not, it's not, you know, three days of recovery and you're done. It's a lifetime.

00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:38.679
You know, you're walking this, the rest of your life. It's, it's,

00:59:38.839 --> 00:59:44.559
you know, when, when we say with PTSD, it's a daily battle, it's a daily fucking battle.

00:59:44.799 --> 00:59:47.399
You have your good days, you have your bad days. You can be having a good day.

00:59:47.499 --> 00:59:52.299
Then all of a sudden, boom, at a drop of a dime, it turns to shit because something

00:59:52.299 --> 00:59:53.639
just triggered you, you know?

00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:59.359
And I hope this really definitely brings more awareness to this.

01:00:00.219 --> 01:00:05.319
You know, that's kind of where I sit with that, you know, and that's why I like

01:00:05.319 --> 01:00:08.559
doing episodes like this is because it brings that awareness to the things that

01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:10.659
people need to, you know, learn about more.

01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:14.979
Yeah. And it raises the stigma. And that's the reason that I'm out there all

01:00:14.979 --> 01:00:18.499
the time because, like, people hear felon or people hear combat veteran or people

01:00:18.499 --> 01:00:20.919
hear PTSD and they're just like, ah, you know what I mean?

01:00:20.979 --> 01:00:24.019
A dude's less than a girl, less than. It's like, no, no.

01:00:24.252 --> 01:00:27.152
They have, and once you get on the other side of that, you bring more to the

01:00:27.152 --> 01:00:30.212
table to offer because you can be like, not only have I recovered,

01:00:30.392 --> 01:00:34.212
but I have a story to tell for others that might need to hear that story, right? Exactly.

01:00:34.632 --> 01:00:37.832
Or I listen to other stories when I go to recovery. And I tell people all the

01:00:37.832 --> 01:00:41.112
time, I'm heavily involved in recovery because I can't afford to go back, right?

01:00:41.132 --> 01:00:44.032
I can't afford my, I'll lose everything I have, you know, in,

01:00:44.032 --> 01:00:48.292
in, in my spirituality, my, my, my, my, my, what sanity I have today,

01:00:48.692 --> 01:00:50.512
you know, the family, you know, the job and all these things.

01:00:50.512 --> 01:00:54.312
He's like, I work in recovery and I'm, I'm blessed to be able to show up every

01:00:54.312 --> 01:00:57.612
day to be able to try to help another addict out or try to help somebody struggling

01:00:57.612 --> 01:01:01.592
with mental health or, or, or alcohol or addiction, whatever it is you're,

01:01:01.632 --> 01:01:03.912
you're, you're struggling with housing.

01:01:04.352 --> 01:01:06.432
You know, homelessness, all that stuff comes hand in hand.

01:01:06.532 --> 01:01:09.192
Right. And it's like, people want to throw money at things and throw,

01:01:09.412 --> 01:01:12.112
uh, you don't, it's money is needed money.

01:01:12.272 --> 01:01:15.552
The programs are needed, but it's the time and the right resources in the right direction.

01:01:15.692 --> 01:01:18.712
Right. Like the, the, the, the company that I worked for, man,

01:01:18.872 --> 01:01:21.432
I mean, it's not, it's a nonprofit.

01:01:21.672 --> 01:01:23.972
You know, we don't make a lot of money working there. You do,

01:01:24.072 --> 01:01:26.452
you get into our job is because you want to help and that's it.

01:01:26.612 --> 01:01:28.952
That's if you don't want to help, then you find something else.

01:01:29.072 --> 01:01:31.052
You could definitely find something that pays better, right?

01:01:31.112 --> 01:01:33.952
Because you're not going to get rich doing it, but you're going to help more

01:01:33.952 --> 01:01:37.052
people at a job like ours and a company like ours than you.

01:01:37.192 --> 01:01:40.572
And I've ever seen any other company help people like we house, we get people.

01:01:40.892 --> 01:01:44.352
I work in a homeless shelter every week here. And, and I, and I'm working in

01:01:44.352 --> 01:01:48.372
Kansas city and I work in, in, in all over the different counties in our area.

01:01:48.872 --> 01:01:52.572
And it's like, we, when I say we, the company, I don't do anything to cut.

01:01:52.572 --> 01:01:55.492
I help connect people to resources so they can get housed and get into rehab.

01:01:55.692 --> 01:01:59.532
We put in people in the rehab, every multiple people, every day to rehab,

01:01:59.632 --> 01:02:02.452
multiple people in the housing, Oxford housing, you know, shelters.

01:02:02.712 --> 01:02:06.432
These people are getting a chance at life and what they do with it after that is up to them.

01:02:06.552 --> 01:02:08.612
Right. And that's, and that's the thing about it. But we do,

01:02:08.752 --> 01:02:12.552
we get them into recovery programs. We get them into the right resources and

01:02:12.552 --> 01:02:16.332
I get to share what I'm sharing with you to my clients and be like, hey.

01:02:17.033 --> 01:02:19.173
You're struggling with homelessness, you're struggling with mental health,

01:02:19.513 --> 01:02:22.613
you're struggling with addiction, which is usually all three most of the time.

01:02:22.713 --> 01:02:26.033
A lot of times I've been there. This is how I got out of it.

01:02:26.393 --> 01:02:31.113
Maybe you could take this route too or a similar route, but people have to understand

01:02:31.113 --> 01:02:37.413
that your recovery in PTSD, mental health, whatever it is your recovery is from,

01:02:37.653 --> 01:02:39.333
it has to be your own recovery.

01:02:39.453 --> 01:02:43.273
It can't be mine. You can't just, I'm going to copy what Jess does.

01:02:43.373 --> 01:02:46.973
It's like, here's some ideas, but you have to walk your own walk And here's

01:02:46.973 --> 01:02:49.733
the thing about it is, is you got to put in the work and you got to,

01:02:49.873 --> 01:02:53.133
it's not just about attending recovery meetings. It's not just about going to rehab.

01:02:53.273 --> 01:02:56.073
It's about making sure that if you need to go to see a mental health provider,

01:02:56.233 --> 01:02:59.533
that you're getting a mental health assessment done on the meds that you need

01:02:59.533 --> 01:03:00.973
to be on that are helping you out. Right.

01:03:01.493 --> 01:03:05.153
You need to, in working with those meds, you have to be doing active recovery.

01:03:05.533 --> 01:03:08.633
You have to be doing, working a program. You have to make sure that you're managing,

01:03:08.933 --> 01:03:12.313
you're balancing your work to your, to your leisure and having a job.

01:03:12.413 --> 01:03:15.253
That's the biggest thing is people, so many people don't want to work.

01:03:15.253 --> 01:03:19.173
And not only does work pay money, but work is for workers.

01:03:20.049 --> 01:03:23.849
To keep you giving me that purpose, right? What am I getting up for every day besides my family?

01:03:24.029 --> 01:03:28.169
What am I getting up for my community? But I need to go somewhere to where I

01:03:28.169 --> 01:03:32.189
feel empowered and where I feel like I'm doing something for the betterment, right?

01:03:32.629 --> 01:03:35.109
And that's why I always advocate for work, man.

01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:40.769
Well, sir, I must say, man, I want to thank you for your service.

01:03:41.209 --> 01:03:45.409
I want to thank you what you're continuing to do to help others.

01:03:46.669 --> 01:03:50.569
And, you know, we need more people like you. We definitely do.

01:03:50.969 --> 01:03:52.349
We need more people like you.

01:03:53.009 --> 01:03:55.969
And, you know, I want to thank you again for coming on the show.

01:03:56.149 --> 01:04:00.209
I would love to. I want to have you back on the show again. And I'm sure you're going to be.

01:04:00.509 --> 01:04:03.409
I would like to get you on a regular fixture on the show so we can get your

01:04:03.409 --> 01:04:04.789
message out there to more and more people.

01:04:05.229 --> 01:04:09.849
I have listeners all over the United States, all over the world that listen to the podcast.

01:04:09.849 --> 01:04:16.089
So hopefully this episode will resonate with somebody that is struggling right

01:04:16.089 --> 01:04:20.869
now and reaches out to somebody like yourself that can help,

01:04:20.969 --> 01:04:23.069
because that's what we need.

01:04:23.129 --> 01:04:29.969
We need to stop the stigma of addiction and focus on recovering,

01:04:30.129 --> 01:04:31.849
helping people to get through these things.

01:04:33.169 --> 01:04:37.389
We need to do that. But so with that being said, why don't you let everybody

01:04:37.389 --> 01:04:40.809
know again where they can find you and all that fun stuff?

01:04:41.609 --> 01:04:44.849
Yeah, the easiest place to find me is on Instagram or TikTok at Recon,

01:04:44.969 --> 01:04:46.489
the number two recovery.

01:04:47.109 --> 01:04:50.089
It's the same handle on both of them. And if you find me there,

01:04:50.229 --> 01:04:52.229
you'll find me on Facebook. There should be links there for everything.

01:04:52.389 --> 01:04:55.389
But yeah, you guys can DM me if you're struggling. If you're going through something,

01:04:55.909 --> 01:04:57.629
I'll spend the time to talk to you.

01:04:57.769 --> 01:05:00.589
I may not get back to you within the hour, but I will get back to you as soon as I can.

01:05:01.324 --> 01:05:05.584
Awesome. Awesome. And don't forget, folks, you can find me over there on Instagram

01:05:05.584 --> 01:05:08.404
and on Facebook where I'm heavily active at The Hammer Drops.

01:05:08.504 --> 01:05:12.844
Don't forget to like, follow and share not only my content, but also Jess's

01:05:12.844 --> 01:05:14.644
content over here as well, because what it does,

01:05:14.764 --> 01:05:18.124
it helps break those algorithms and allows these things to get out to more and

01:05:18.124 --> 01:05:23.424
more people that need to hear it, that need that may need the help that they

01:05:23.424 --> 01:05:27.044
just don't know what route to go down. and this is going to actually help them out.

01:05:27.664 --> 01:05:32.164
If you want to get in touch with me, feel free to email me at david at thehammerdrops.com.

01:05:32.284 --> 01:05:34.044
That's the best way to get in touch with me.

01:05:34.244 --> 01:05:37.764
And I'll be able to respond to you a lot quicker that way than through DMs.

01:05:38.584 --> 01:05:42.804
DMs seem to get filled up pretty quickly and I try to get through them as fast as I can.

01:05:43.184 --> 01:05:46.944
But unfortunately, you know, email is probably the best way to do it.

01:05:47.324 --> 01:05:50.304
You're going to be able to see this, obviously, out there, YouTube and all your

01:05:50.304 --> 01:05:51.724
favorite podcast platforms as well.

01:05:52.164 --> 01:05:54.924
Don't forget to leave a five-star rating because again that

01:05:54.924 --> 01:05:57.784
helps with those algorithms and before we end

01:05:57.784 --> 01:06:00.444
the show i have to say wouldn't it

01:06:00.444 --> 01:06:04.204
be great if you know if we

01:06:04.204 --> 01:06:11.364
as a country if we were you know a 912 if we can get back to that as a country

01:06:11.364 --> 01:06:16.524
you know where we were united all as one yeah i think we'd be in a much better

01:06:16.524 --> 01:06:21.544
place yeah so until until the next time folks you guys.